Reproduction requested.
The interviewees come from diverse backgrounds but are marked by a common characteristic: their commitment to defending the rights of nature.
Meeting with Decio Machado were together: the scientist, writer and social activist Vandana Shiva from India who recently visited Ecuador; the current president of the Confederation of Indigenous Nationalities of the Ecuadorian Amazon (CONFENIAE) - the Amazonian structure of CONAIE -, Franco Viteri, an activist against oil exploitation in his community of Sarayacu; and the economist, academic and intellectual Alberto Acosta, recently chosen as the sole left-wing candidate for the presidential elections that will take place in Ecuador next February.
- -(DM) Vandana, you recently visited Yasuní National Park, considered the region with the greatest biological diversity in the world, by official invitation. How do you feel after that trip?
-(VS) I did not know Yasuní, I would like to wholeheartedly thank the Secretary of State for the Yasuní-ITT Initiative, Ivonne Baki, and the Ecuadorian government for their invitation, which has allowed me to live this wonderful experience.
There are basically three very important things I can talk about after returning from there: first, the enormous wealth of biodiversity that exists in Yasuni Park; second, the deep sense of sacred purity that one feels when being there; and lastly, the diversity and multiplicity of life that exists in this protected area.
I am extremely grateful to the Ecuadorian people for having imagined and generated a project of this nature. The Yasuní-ITT Initiative is not only a project that should be defended by the affected indigenous communities, environmental organizations or Ecuadorian society as a whole, it is a vital project for the entire planet.
- -(DM) Franco, you have just arrived from the Yasuní Natural Park by a different route than the one used by Vandana during her visit. How do you see the situation in Yasuní at the moment?
–(FV) Indeed, I have just returned from Yasuni, and I must confess that I am much more worried than before traveling there. Although we had information about the activities in the construction of oil infrastructure that is being carried out in Block 31 and around the park, once there I must tell you that the government's Plan B, that is, the logic that leads to the extraction of oil in the ITT, is advancing in Yasuni. The official discourse at the international level is nice and seductive, the Correa government says it defends nature, the environment and indigenous peoples, however the reality is far from the propaganda message.
- -(DM) Alberto, you are one of the driving forces behind this proposal. Tell us basically what the Yasuní-ITT Initiative is?
-(AA) We are talking about a proposal that goes beyond sectoral visions and even the national vision. The initiative seeks to keep the oil on land in the Yasuní National Park, in exchange for financial resources from the world community, a proposal with which Ecuador surprised the world in 2007.
This initiative has no father or manager; it brings together proposals from various people and civil society organizations accumulated over time. It is the product of a long process of resistance and struggles by indigenous peoples and settlers in the Amazon, as well as by many people from other regions of the country who consistently accompany this process.
The Yasuní-ITT Initiative is a turning point in environmental history. It goes beyond the stage of discourses without effective proposals, developing as a vigorous step to question the logic of extractive development, as well as an option to globally build good living, understood as life in harmony between human beings with themselves and with nature. The project, in particular, is based on a respectful vision of nature and the cultural options of the free peoples in voluntary isolation who still inhabit this Amazonian territory.
- -(DM) Vandana, do you think the proposal to leave crude oil in the ground, as entailed by the Yasuní-ITT Initiative, is viable in today's world, subject to the power of transnational oil companies?
-(VS) Unlike Ecuador, India is a hugely populated country but we still leave space for the survival of animals that we consider sacred in our culture.
In an interdependent world like the one we live in today, since the second half of the last century we have developed the concept of the “global village” in reference to the way in which new communication technologies have transformed our idea of distance and our relationship with distant places and societies in the world. I must point out that the Yasuní is the heart of our “global village.” To speak of the Yasuní is to speak of something that goes far beyond the management of natural parks or the conservation of animal life. To speak of the Yasuní-ITT Initiative is to speak of the recognition that the Constitution of Ecuador makes of Mother Earth.
In this sense, it is worth pointing out that Mother Earth deserves all our respect. It is not we who give rights to Mother Earth, it is Mother Earth who gives us rights.
The Constitution of Ecuador, through its recognition of the rights of nature, has responded to more than 500 years of savage exploitation of the natural resources existing in our nature. The colonization of our lands was carried out on the sacrifice of the indigenous peoples. From there, the colonization of nature, of indigenous communities, of women, of culture and of the future developed. All of this is interrelated.
Therefore, in accordance with the Constitution of Ecuador, the Yasuní-ITT Initiative must go ahead, and therefore, the oil in the ITT subsoil must remain there. We will work hard to ensure that this proposal is successful at the international level.
Talking about the rights of nature means talking about the Yasuni-ITT Initiative, talking about the decolonization of nature, and stopping thinking of nature as something that is dead. In today's globalized world and in the face of the depredation to which the planet is subjected, we are obliged to think about the decolonization of indigenous peoples, the decolonization of nature and of women. We must decolonize the future, we must stop thinking selfishly under the criterion that we want everything for today and start thinking seriously about future generations and the viability of the planet.
For me, getting to know Yasuni was not just a sacred experience. Yasuni became for me a university of nature and life, something that requires the need to think in a different way. Everything we need is given to us by nature. Beyond the number of reptiles and birds in Yasuni, we are talking about the interconnectivity of life. Yasuni actually represents the richness of life in the face of consumer society and material wealth.
- -(DM) Franco, the Ecuadorian government is promoting the Eleventh Oil Round for next October, through which at least twelve new oil blocks in the center and southeast of the country will be put out to tender. Don't you think the Yasuní-ITT Initiative's approach is contradictory with respect to the environmental impact that this new expansion of the oil frontier will have on Amazonian territory?
–(FV) It is true that we are living in a contradiction. While an ecological discourse is being outlined in international circles, the government of President Rafael Correa has launched the XI Oil Round. But before talking about this, I would like to clarify some issues regarding the Yasuní-ITT Initiative.
Leaving the crude oil in the Yasuní subsoil is a government initiative that has been the result of pressure from indigenous peoples. Our objective in this regard is to make the different peoples of this world understand that they must stop practicing colonialism on our communities.
Although we were able to act together at one point to defend the Yasuni-ITT Initiative, what guarantees us today that the funds raised by this initiative that reach Ecuador will not be used to continue deepening a predatory logic that disrespects nature and indigenous peoples? The daily actions of the Ecuadorian government generate many doubts and concerns in this regard.
For us, the money that can be raised through the Yasuni-ITT Initiative is not as important as the defense of life. It is from this perspective that we understand the revolutionary proposal that is embodied in the Yasuni-ITT Initiative. For us, the objective is the defense of the Amazonian natural wealth, its spirituality and our traditional ways of life. We are talking about a wealth that cannot be measured in quantitative terms, it is part of our worldview, of ourselves. We are not so interested in money, even though we need it given the high percentages of poverty that exist in the indigenous world. Poverty in the indigenous world is officially quantified at 60%, which is shameful. What we seek is for people to learn something about how we love life, a life in which men and women are one more element in the context of nature and therefore we intend to live in harmony with it.
Returning to the XI Oil Round, CONFENIAE has recently denounced to the public that the Ecuadorian Constitution and the rights of indigenous peoples have been trampled upon by the irresponsible implementation of Executive Decree 1247 – issued on July 19, 2012 – corresponding to prior, free and informed consultation for the extraction of hydrocarbons, the same that is already being applied without any type of consultation.
The UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, the Treaties, Conventions and Pacts on indigenous and collective rights within the framework of the standards established by the Inter-American Court of Human Rights have not been fully complied with by the regime.
The advertising and media campaign deployed by the government in the Amazonian communities, as well as the socialization process promoted to promote the XI Oil Round, uses information biased towards extractive interests, which turns the people into a simple receiver of information. Community relations are doing a work of colonization and alienation by transmitting the supposed benefits of the State's public policies to the communities since it is easier to negotiate with communities that have lost everything.
- -(DM) So Franco, in your view, is there no real consultation with indigenous communities?
–(FV) The Ecuadorian State has reduced prior, free and informed consultation to a simple informational talk for socialization by officials of the Hydrocarbons Undersecretariat that do not meet the parameters determined by the Inter-American System but that have served to confuse public opinion and some members of the nationalities who with first aid kits donated by said Undersecretariat have given their signatures as is the case of the Sápara community, who are suffering government interference and causing division in their territory.
It is worth remembering in this regard that the Sápara Nationality was declared by UNESCO as "oral and intangible heritage of humanity." We seriously fear the intervention of the armed forces to carry out the implementation of the XI Oil Round in communities that oppose the extraction of their natural resources.
- -(DM) Alberto, explain to us the origins and what the government's Plan A and Plan B consist of regarding the Yasuni-ITT Initiative, and what the state of internal tensions is between those who defend one position or another.
–(AA) The ITT Initiative, in reference to the oil reserves of the Ishpingo-Tambococha-Tiputini corridor, located in the Yasuní Park and representing only a fraction of this park, was officially assumed by President Correa at the Petroecuador board meeting on March 30, 2007. The position assumed by President Correa temporarily settled the dispute between the Ministry of Energy, of which I was head at that time, and which proposed leaving the crude oil in the ITT in exchange for international financial compensation, and Petroecuador, which surreptitiously accelerated the signing of agreements of intent to extract the crude oil there.
From that moment on, Plan A was accepted as the first option, that is, to leave the crude oil stored on land, in order not to affect an area of extraordinary biodiversity and not to put at risk the existence of various peoples in voluntary isolation or uncontacted peoples. This measure is considered provided that the international community provides at least half of the resources that would be generated if the oil exploitation option were chosen, which is valued economically at some 3.6 billion dollars.
This decision is innovative and contradicts the dominant logic on the planet, which is based on extracting every last drop of crude oil from deposits discovered anywhere in the world.
Keeping the oil underground in the ITT field has important ethical, social and even economic implications, and as Franco rightly points out, not all of them can be quantified in monetary terms. Firstly, it would prevent the extinction of the Waorani culture, whose subsistence has been based on hunting, gathering and itinerant agriculture. It is a fact that oil activity and the permanent and expansive exploitation of the forests have irreversibly affected the majority of the Waorani population and other indigenous groups. It is a matter of saving the few who remain safe from the Western siege: the Tagaeri, the Taromenane and the Oñamenane.
On the other hand, this proposal would prevent the emission of some 410 million metric tons of CO2; that is, it would save the world the cost of reducing it. It would also avoid the effects of deforestation caused by oil exploitation. The ITT oil reserves are located under a territory that contains the greatest concentrated biodiversity on the planet, where there are at least 165 species of mammals, 110 species of amphibians, 72 species of reptiles, 630 species of birds, 1,130 species of trees and 280 species of lianas, not counting countless species of invertebrates that have not yet been classified.
However, over time, President Rafael Correa has maintained inconsistent and contradictory positions regarding this proposal, an ambiguity that puts the Yasuní-ITT Initiative at risk. We find that public commitments are periodically made for Plan A, while threats are made to develop Plan B, the exploitation of the crude oil in Yasuní. This situation generates doubts in the international community, a condition that is used by the community to not strongly support an initiative that coincides with a serious economic crisis at the international level.- -(DM) I understand, Vandana, that wealth for you does not necessarily mean money. However, the Yasuní-ITT Initiative is supported by financial contributions from the international community. How do you see that?
–(VS) Of course, wealth does not necessarily mean money. At Yasuni, one can experience the richness of nature. One experiences well-being simply by being there. However, this is not the case in the corporate world.
Just by crossing the Napo River, you no longer see that great wealth of birds and monkeys; what you see is a large number of trucks transporting materials and machinery for oil extraction.
One must be strong with the values of one's culture. The Yasuni is strong in itself, it is a source of strength for life, it is there where the real value of things is, which is reflected in the real value of leaving oil in the ground. I would say that we cannot afford to destroy one of the few places in the world where nature and life are intact.
- -(DM) The Ecuadorian government estimates the value of the crude oil buried in its subsoil at 7 billion dollars.
–(AA) What are the 7 billion dollars buried in the ground? The transnational companies that sell genetically modified seeds - transgenic - make much more than 7 billion dollars in profit. Much more than 70 billion dollars have been spent to save the Wall Street banks. The money spent to save Wall Street is worthless compared to the commitment to save this natural wealth. It is a challenge that all of humanity must take on; it is part of the struggle for life.
On the other hand, I trust that Ecuadorian society will be the one to make the commitment to leave the oil in the Yasuni subsoil. I personally assume the role of promoting the international Yasuni initiative, and a few days ago I accepted the proposal made by Secretary of State Ivonne Baki to act as a goodwill ambassador to raise funds to make the initiative viable. The Yasuní-ITT Initiative brings Ecuador to the center of the rights of nature at an international level.
- -(DM) Ecuador currently extracts about 500 thousand barrels of oil per day and plans to expand extraction through the exploitation of new fields. At the same time, on March 8, the first concession for large-scale mining in a highly sensitive area was signed with the Chinese transnational ECSA, and currently the legislation is being modified to facilitate the signing of a new concession in that territory with a company with similar characteristics called Kinross. However, the national strategic agenda, as well as the National Plan for Good Living and the Constitution itself, speak of moving towards a post-extractivist society. Do you think that is the roadmap to reach a post-extractivist society, Vandana?
–(VS) I think that current extractivism is a contradiction to everything written in the Constitution of Ecuador. The Constitution should be the baseline on which the paradigm for good living and the formation of a future post-extractivist society is defined.
We must remember that we will not always have resources for education, health and other issues through the exploitation of natural resources; we have to renew the economy of countries. Let us see in Ecuador the damage caused by Chevron Texaco and its consequences, and now let us think that even if Chevron were to pay for all the damage it has caused, nothing would be the same in the areas it contaminated.
Today, indigenous communities are considered primitive cultures, but I think that they are the ones who will show us the way forward. We must overcome the concept by which corporations are considered to be at the expense of citizens, understanding that they are the ones who will generate the money we need.
We need to move towards the rights of nature, that is the great value of projects such as the Yasuní-ITT Initiative, we must move towards a new ideology.
- -(DM) Franco, how do we get to what Vandana is suggesting?
-(FV) For us, indigenous peoples, we see development from a different perspective. We don't have many things, but the most important thing for us is to be outdoors, and to feel in contact with nature and be part of it, as well as to cultivate community and family coexistence.
We see ridiculous things being done in our territory, such as the fact that a millennium city is being built in Pañacocha, undervaluing ancestral knowledge and local ways of life. Cement is being poured into the jungle, as are other harmful construction materials that are far removed from our culture, traditions and ways of life. We continue to experience the prevalence of a single way of thinking. In the jungle, thought is diverse, and we demand respect for our culture, our ways of life and social organization. Let us work with common sense and reason.
- -(DM) Alberto, what is the proposal at this time to save the Yasuní-ITT?
–(AA) An experience in Yasuni gives us a new way of understanding life. All inhabitants of the country should be able to visit Yasuni National Park at some point to understand that all living beings have a reason for being.
Forty years ago, oil activity began in Lago Agrio, a name that comes from the first Texaco oil well in the region. In August 1972, we began to export oil and we thought that all the problems were going to be solved by exporting oil. We were told that we were on the threshold of development, something similar to what happens today. After 4.5 billion barrels of oil extracted in 40 years, Ecuador has not developed and the Amazonian provinces are the poorest in the country. Why repeat the same thing over and over again expecting different results?
The interesting thing about the Yasuní-ITT Initiative is that it opens the door to finding solutions for all of humanity. It is no longer about receiving funds based on compensation, it is about shared but differentiated responsibilities. We must all protect nature, but there are some who have greater responsibility for the current deterioration of the planet than others. We will need not just one Yasuní, but two, three, five, ten and a thousand Yasuní-ITT Initiatives to defend the planet.
We must therefore invent a new option, Plan C: we will defend Yasuní even if we do not have a single dollar. We must transform Yasuni into a tool for major international transformations. But to do so we need a coherent government that does not constantly backtrack and that also acts consistently with its objectives. Oil cannot be exploited in Block 31, which is inside Yasuní and puts the entire ITT at risk. In addition, agreements should be reached with Peru to extend the protected zone towards the neighboring country.
The Amazon has been our colonization zone, it has been the periphery of the periphery. We cannot continue treating the Amazon as the backyard of the Republic. To do this we must decommodify nature, we must see the green of the trees and not the green of the dollars in the Yasuní. The Initiative tries to build a scheme of global ecological justice, for this, the fundamental factor is not based on the logic of money.
- -(DM) How do you see the Eleventh Oil Round, Alberto?
-The XI Oil Round is nothing more than the continuation of the current government's extractive logic. It will generate serious conflicts without even having a great economic expectation of oil extraction. It is estimated that between 100 and 120 million barrels of oil are contained in the subsoil corresponding to the wells involved in the XI Oil Round, while in the Yasuni subsoil we are talking about between 850 and 900 million. From a social point of view, all indigenous communities will be affected. And from an environmental perspective, destroying the south-central Amazon is something that our children and grandchildren will not forgive us for.
- -(DM) Anything to add Vandana?
–(VS) I want to point out that the Yasuní-ITT Initiative must indeed be replicated, to prevent the rivers and seas from being polluted and the last forests from being destroyed. We must work to fight against genetically modified seeds, and fight against the power of corporations. On their scale, each free seed is equal to a Yasuní.
Originally published in : deciomachado.blogspot Decio Machado is an analyst, sociologist, social researcher, international political consultant, specialist in environmental management, communication and political marketing. He collaborates with various media outlets in Latin America and Europe.
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